可通过中继器冗余至标准连接？Redundant to standard connection possible via repeater?

这是我第一次接触H系统，所以我做了很多研究，但我对一些事情仍不确定，我希望有人能证实我的结论或帮助我解决一些问题。

It's my first time dealing with H systems, so I've done a lot of research, but I'm still not sure about a couple of things, and I was hoping someone would be able to confirm my conclusions or help me clear up some issues.

我有一个S7 412-5H站，它通过IM153-2s连接到ET200M，这不是问题。然而，我还必须连接一条额外的非冗余Profibus DP总线。在目前的概念中，我被告知使用每个CPU上的一个DP接口连接ET200Ms，CPU的其他两个DP接口则连接到中继器的一侧，形成一个段，并连接到中发器另一侧的非冗余总线。

I have an S7 412-5H station which is connected to ET200Ms via IM153-2s, which is not a problem. However, there is also an additional, non-redundant Profibus DP bus which I have to connect to. In the current concept, I've been told to use one of the DP interfaces on each CPU to connect to ET200Ms, and the other two DP interfaces of the CPUs are connected to one side of a repeater, forming a segment, and connecting to the non-redundant bus on the other side of the repeater.

我没有任何设备，所以我正在网上寻找答案，而且资源稀缺。基本上，我的推理是：即使其中一个CPU处于备用状态，它仍然是一个活动的DP主机，因为可能存在单面分布式I/O。因此，我将有两个Profibus主控设备在一条总线上通信，因为我希望每个CPU能够在其中一个CPU发生故障时与该总线上的所有从机通信，这是不可能的，因为每个主控设备都对自己的从机进行参数化，然后它们对总线上的其他主控设备（即另一个CPU）是只读的？

I don't have any of the equipment, so I'm looking for answers online and resources are scarce. Basically, my reasoning is this: even though one of the CPUs is in standby, it is still an active DP master because of the possibility of single-sided distributed I/O. Therefore, I would have two Profibus masters communicating on one bus, and since I want each CPU to be able to communicate with all the slaves on that bus in case of failure of one of the CPUs, that would be impossible, because each master parametrizes its own slaves and they are afterwards read-only to other masters on the bus (i.e. the other CPU)?

另一方面，我在S7-400H手册中看到一段描述使用SFB14 GET和SFB14 PUT来解决将冗余系统连接到非冗余系统的问题。由于建议的解决方案涉及S7通信，无主设备等，是否可以将非冗余总线上的所有设备（所有带Profibus主模块的S7-1200）连接到两个CPU（菊花链），并使用S7通信来解决冗余问题？在这种情况下，我可以使用集成的DP接口吗？还是必须为每个CPU配备一个Profibus CP？

On the other hand, I saw a paragraph in the S7-400H manual describing the use of SFB14 GET and SFB14 PUT to get around this problem of connecting a redundant system to a non-redundant one. Since the proposed solution involves S7 communication, without masters etc, would it be possible to have all the devices on the non-redundant bus (all S7-1200s with Profibus master modules) connected to both CPUs (daisy-chain), and use S7 communication to get around the redundancy issue? In that case, would I be able to use the integrated DP interfaces, or would I have to get one Profibus CP for each CPU?

谢谢

Thanks!

你好尼曼贾巴比语,

Hi nemanjababic,

1.借助GET/PUT，U可以编程与非冗余CPU的冗余通信

1. U can program redundant communication with non-redundant CPU with the help of GET/PUT. 

观察CPU0的连接状态[例如，连接ID 1]。如果失败，切换到第二个CPU连接。[例如，连接ID 2]。U可以使用块的就绪/忙碌/错误信号进行切换。

Observe the connection status of CPU0[eg. conn. ID 1]. If it fails switch to second CPU connection.[eg. conn. ID 2]. U can use ready/busy/error signals of the blocks for switch-over.

2.如果使用集成DP接口，则完全没有问题。更重要的是，你应该在netpro中有不同的连接ID，并且应该在所有3个PLC中下载

2. There is no problem at all if u r using integrated DP interface. More important is that u should have different connection IDs in netpro and it should be downloaded in all 3 PLCs. 

谢谢你的回答！如果你能帮我解决一些其他问题，我将永远感激。很抱歉，有这么多问题，如果没有设备来尝试这些概念，我就很难理解这一点。

Thanks for the answer! If you could just help me out with some other issues, I'd be eternally grateful. Sorry for having so many questions, it's not easy to wrap my head around this without devices to try the concepts out on.

因此，基本上，我可以在Netpro中将两个H CPU上的DP接口配置为DP主机（因为这是412-5H唯一可用的选项），为其分配单独的Profibus子网，然后为每个S7-1200 CPU创建两个连接（每个CPU一个）（使用“in-unknown project”选项），并在S7-1200的CPU中定义具有相同参数的连接？

So, basically, I could configure the DP interfaces on both H CPUs as DP masters in Netpro (because that's the only option available for 412-5H), assign separate Profibus subnets to them, then create two connections (one for each CPU) to each S7-1200 CPU (using the "in unknown project" option), and define the connections with the same parameters in S7-1200 CPUs?

在这种情况下，我是否仍能将HMI作为DP从站放置在非冗余链路上？

Would I still be able to place HMIs on the non-redundant link as DP slaves in this case?

我还必须为S7-1200使用Profibus DP主CP，因为如果我没弄错的话，从CP不支持S7通信？

I would also have to use Profibus DP master CPs for S7-1200s, because slave CPs don't support S7 communication if I'm not mistaken?

在物理上，我是否能够连接从CPU出来的两个子网（即，将其接口连接到Profibus中继器一侧的接口，并将非冗余CPU连接到中继器另一侧的单线）？我不太清楚Profibus DP主机在这种情况下的行为，即在软件中配置单独的子网，但相同的物理总线。

Physically, would I be able to join the two subnets coming out of the CPUs (i.e. connect their interfaces to the interfaces on one side of a Profibus repeater, and have the non-redundant CPUs on a single line coming out the other side of the repeater)? I'm not really clear on the behaviour of the Profibus DP masters in this scenario, i.e separate subnets configured in the software, but same physical bus.

您是否还可以确认其他配置不可能，即不使用S7连接，而是将DPV1通信配置为H CPU作为DP主机，S7-1200 CPU作为DP从机，并使用中继器物理连接H CPU的接口以形成单个段？据我所知，使用Profibus DP，唯一可以执行此操作的方法是使用Y链接？

Could you please also confirm that the other configuration would not be possible, i.e. not using S7 connections, but configuring DPV1 communication with H CPUs as DP masters and S7-1200 CPUs as DP slaves, and physically connecting the interfaces of the H CPUs to form a single segment using a repeater? From what I gather, with Profibus DP, the only way this could be performed is by using Y-links?

你好尼曼贾巴比语,

Hi nemanjababic,

1.在这种情况下，我是否仍能将HMI作为DP从机放置在非冗余链路上？

1. Would I still be able to place HMIs on the non-redundant link as DP slaves in this case?

->是的。

-> Yes.

2.在物理上，我是否能够连接从CPU出来的两个子网（即，将其接口连接到Profibus中继器一侧的接口，并将非冗余CPU连接到中继器另一侧的单线）？我不太清楚Profibus DP主机在这种情况下的行为，即在软件中配置单独的子网，但相同的物理总线

2. Physically, would I be able to join the two subnets coming out of the CPUs (i.e. connect their interfaces to the interfaces on one side of a Profibus repeater, and have the non-redundant CPUs on a single line coming out the other side of the repeater)? I'm not really clear on the behaviour of the Profibus DP masters in this scenario, i.e separate subnets configured in the software, but same physical bus

->对于S7-1200，U将需要2个单独的DP接口。[可能是CP的第二个]。

-> U will need 2 seperate DP interfaces for S7-1200. [Probably second with CP].

我所指的原始配置位于“配置1”图像中。使用此配置（或简单地忽略中继器并直接连接接口），是否可以与HMI或S7-1200建立任何类型的通信？

The original configuration I was referring to is in the "configuration 1" image. Using this configuration (or simply omitting the repeater and connecting the interfaces directly), would it be at all possible to establish any kind of communication to the HMI or S7-1200?

“配置2”怎么样？我在西门子的一份手册中看到了HMI与H系统的连接。只有连接到主CPU的中继器才通电。可以使用Profibus DP通信将S7-1200作为智能从机连接到HMI吗？我已经看到这样连接HMI是可能的，但我可以同时连接吗？

What about "configuration 2"? I've come across it in a Siemens manual for connecting HMIs to H systems. Only the repeater connected to the master CPU is supplied power. Would it be possible to use Profibus DP communication to connect both to the S7-1200 as an intelligent slave and to the HMI this way? I've seen that its possible to connect an HMI this way, but can I connect both?

你好尼曼贾巴比语,

Hi nemanjababic,

你能分享那本西门子手册吗？我认为你需要再次参考手册以获得答案。

Can u share that siemens manual? I think U need to again refer the manual for answers.

这就是我刚才提到的手册。

This is the manual I was referring to.

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/document/23842653/how-do-you-connect-a-panel-to-a-simatic-h-station-?dti=0&lc=en-WW

https://support.industry.siemens.com/cs/document/23842653/how-do-you-connect-a-panel-to-a-simatic-h-station-?dti=0&lc=en-WW

第4章提供了将单个HMI面板连接到H系统的配置，但我想知道的是DP从设备是否也可以以相同的方式连接。

Chapter 4 provides a configuration for connecting a single HMI panel to an H system, but what I wanted to know was whether DP slaves can also be connected in the same manner.

然而，我们现在将切换到具有Y链接的配置，我们将把所有HMI连接到PLC的MPI/DP接口，但我仍然想知道上述配置是否可行。

However, we'll now be switching to a configuration with Y-links and we will be connecting all the HMIs to the MPI/DP interfaces of the PLCs, but I'd still love to find out if the above configurations are possible.